Finally got around to firing this rifle for the first time today. It's about 15 yrs old but I got it last year from duck hunting partner on a trade. His ex had bought it for him and he didn't like smokepoles anyway. I lubed up some 455 gr Maxi's I bought thru DGW and set them over top 70 and 80 gr of triple 7 FF. Could not get any kind of groups at 25 yd. Even missed the paper 4 times! I figured rear sight might be loose. Nope. I shot some Hornady RB's with .015 patch and 80 gr 777FF and 1/2" group at 50 yards! All shots were from sands bags. Any thoughts?? I bought the rifle for small game with the GM .32 cal I bought from Dixie. It is awesome. Thanks for the replies. sduve
Post by mamaflinter on Oct 14, 2003 6:10:57 GMT -5
Did you try adjusting your powder charges (in 5 grain increments) at all during this session? Take a notebook with you and keep records of loads tried and what works/don't work so you know and won't spend time trying something that you already tried. It could be that your rifle just doesn't like those conicals. You can try varying powder charge. If this doesn't work, try different projectiles.
Post by wouldchuck on Oct 20, 2003 21:52:53 GMT -5
It could be the rate of twist in your barrel.
I'm going to assume that it is a 1:48" rate. I have a Cabela's Hawkin with that rate in it and I can't get it to shoot maxis or conicals worth a darn. But PRBs...Last week-end I was getting 3 1/2" - 4 " groupings at 75yd.
Last Edit: Oct 20, 2003 21:53:57 GMT -5 by wouldchuck
Check the twist rate. It sounds like you have a RB twist in the rifle. 1-48" and above would give you fits with too long a conical. If it is 1-48, try a shorter conical, that my help. If greater, use it for round ball only. Is this going to be a hunting rifle? If so and you are not going to Alaska to hunt the big brown bear, a round ball will work just fine up to and including moose.Good shooting, Dick Chayer
If you need to shoot conicals, the lighter weight Buffalo Bullets or Lee Real Bullets may work. My preference is patched round balls for anything that I'll hunt and that includes elk on down. Real black powder may tighten up the groups as well.
I have heard that the 54 Renegade or even the 50 does not like Maxi's....I always shot PRB and very happy with the groups, but when the sabot concept appeared I quickly switched with little difference in My shot groups...I find I have no leading in the barrel now....Like Weasel, I shoot a lot (7 BP rifles) its no task to have 2 inch groups at 150 yards...... (oops- I am scoped ) Magnum
I have a 54 cal Renegade with a 1/48 twist barrel and have had excellent results using a 425 grain Hornady Great Plains bullet over 100 grains of Pyrodex RS as my hunting load. I just started using this rifle for deer hunting the last 3 seasons and have taken 5 deer with it, from 15 to 85 yards, using the load mentioned and open sights. All deer were dropped virtually in their tracks with a single shot to the shoulder. On paper, I can get 4" groups, at 50 yards, without trying too hard and could probably tighten it some with a bit more effort.
I lubed up some 455 gr Maxi's I bought thru DGW and set them over top 70 and 80 gr of triple 7 FF. Could not get any kind of groups at 25 yd. Even missed the paper 4 times! I figured rear sight might be loose. Nope. I shot some Hornady RB's with .015 patch and 80 gr 777FF and 1/2" group at 50 yards! All shots were from sands bags. Any thoughts?? ====================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, not very many 1-48s like conicals that are 455 grains. The typical weight range for that twist is 240-385 for best accuracy in a majority of those rifles. Yes... there are exceptions, but those are minorities.
Also, 777 powder is a very hot ignitor. It will blow-by conical lubes under pressure from such a huge 455 grain conical. First off, you needed more lube protection than what's provided on that bullet and/or a bore button/wonder wad/Cream Of Wheat.
Those monster bullets of yours are more intended for 54 cal twists of around 1-32". As the barrel narrows down, the proper twist rate goes down also. That's why White rifles are king of the 45 calibers with conicals. Their 1-20" twist in a 45 cal will very accurately put a 460 grain conical on target well beyond 150 yards.
Thanks for the reply. I took said rifle out yesterday with round balls a downed a doe at 60 yds. Deer traveled about 125-150 yds. Shot was in front of diaphram and ball lodged in front of opposite rear leg. Not much blood at first, only 1 hole. Am still trying to find lighter Maxi's, cause ball just isn't heavy enough IMHO. Have a great season. sduve
The RB you are shooting is plenty big enough for a whitetail deer. Shot placement is the problem. Practive with the gun & simply shoot the deer in the heart & the problem is solved. I an others on all of the boards have sucessfully shot Whitetails for years with RB & we don't have problems with them.
I get alot of coments about this but here goes: I am using a 1-66 twist and 82 gr of 3F black powder, with a .535 Union Minie ball at 410 gr. I use crisco for lube and open site's. This is a very easy loading bullet and very good on paper, on a good day I am getting 2" or less at 100 yds. Most shooters today say that this is to slow for this bullet but you look at the old Enfields and Springfields of the Civil War and you will see that they had a 1-66 twist and in .58 they was shooting alot of 525 gr minie balls very well too. The standerd Union load for this was 60 gr of 2F and that is what we call today 3F size. Colt made a rifle that was a 1-72 progresev twist, it started out slow and ganed in twist as it went down the bore. From what I have seen of the Sabots I would go with a PRB before I ever stuffed one done any of my smoke poles. I do shot alot of them, 2 .58's, 3 .54's, a .50, a .45 Rifles and 2 .44's & 2 .36 Cap and Ball's. I would like to add a Rem Zualv (sp?) .58 for shooting NSSA events.
Frank R. Steed. P.U.S.H. Proud Vet from WV. LM NRA & NAHC FM Ohio Camp Cooks. Member 43rd Va. Cav Troop B. or 2nd Tenn. Troop B. Pray for our Troops and may they be home for next season.
It sounds like your gun has a 1 in 66" twist. I have two 54 renegades, 1 in 66", and neither will shot anything but round balls. My grouping at club shoots are all in the 9 and 10 rings. I use 80 grains of FF for target shooting and 120 grains for hunting. the only difference is the grouping opens up to about 2" groups with 120 grains. I also found that .535 RB tighten up the group to about 1 1/2 ". Hope this helps, but by now you might have moved up to the in-lines as I did, but still like to take the 54's out for target shooting.
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